About six weeks ago, I started a thread in this forum evaluating, from my perspective as a Winston Cup team chief engineer, the accuracy of the physics presented in NR2002. I stated I would present my assessment to Papyrus. It turned out that it was unnecessary to do so; Papyrus came to me, as a result of that thread. To make a long story short, Papyrus and I spoke, then we met face-to-face at my team's shop, then we began an exchange of information geared toward making NR2003 the most accurate NASCAR simulation possible for gaming purposes available on PC. I have given (and still give) reams of engineering data on my team's cars. Papyrus has given (and still gives) me pre-release builds of their game to evaluate and comment upon. Numerous calls have taken place to ensure that design intent and engineering numbers have been understood and implemented properly.
I want to say up front that the people who make the car model at Papyrus are engineers who take the development of the car model seriously, and they attempt to justify everything put in it by real engineering criteria. I think that the basic soundness of their modeling approach has been evidenced to me by the fact that with every inclusion of more accurate design information coming from my team, the more accurate the car performed, both in terms of setup and driving.
First, simulation or game? It's both, really, a simulation wrapped up in a game environment. I will postulate that a few years ago, NR2003's car model could have passed as a credible simulation tool for engineering analysis.
OK, enough prelude - what's changed about it? A lot. New and more complex aerodynamic modeling. Engine power has been revamped. Suspension geometry. Steering geometry. Swaybar stiffness. More. Up front I will tell you I have given Papyrus THE REAL STUFF. All I have done is very minimally massage horsepower, torque and aero properties so that no one can reverse-engineer my team's car. When you buy NR2003, you WILL have in your hands as accurate a model of current Winston Cup hardware as I can in good conscience release for public consumption. I have given a lot more than I've kept back.
I think the only reason that such a working through of the car model was in order was because the sources willing to provide Papyrus information in the past have been reluctant to fork over the hard data. Further, such sources are few, and data can quickly become out of date.
How will it affect how you set up the car? Well, expect to leave the rear swaybars back in the shop (It'll help the team transporter at the weigh station!). Oh, they're available, but you'll probably not make much use of them. Some teams use them at quite large tracks, and you can if you want, but the car will turn without them. You'll be able to select front bars up to 2", just like Cup teams can. Cup teams actually spend much of their time with bars bigger than the previous1-1/2" limit.
Expect to shove the lead further forward in your frame rails (more nose weight). Further expect to be using stiffer front springs at many tracks. The days of starting with a 700/900 spring baseline across the front everywhere are gone. Oh, you can try it if you want, but expect to find some wall. Expect the fabricators back at the shop to hate you with a passion, too.
Seven-degree camber is back, but with better tire modeling. Why? Because on the LF, teams are frequently above five degrees.
The new aero model is such that you'll probably have the spoiler stood up more than before.
You've got more horsepower and torque than before, along with a more tractable power band. More tractable power, but when 750 HP at the rear wheels gets turned to over 4400 ft-lb of wheel torque by the magic of gearing, you still have to stay on top of it all. If you think it's that hard to find trouble at low speed, just remember Michael Waltrip qualifying for the Winston last year.
Your qualifying setup will likely be tighter than your race setup. Cold tires still run a bit loose, and the effect of grille tape is bigger. So, to get a good balance for qualifying, more nose weight, stiffer front springs, and a bigger bar are likely to be in order, as it often is in real racing.
So, I wouldn't even try to do a set up import from NR2002. Even if such an import works, I doubt the on-track results will be to your liking. Don't get your underwear in a wad over it; if Papyrus is out of the NASCAR sim business after this release, there will be lots of time to work on your setups.
How does this affect driving? Hard to say exactly, but at the slow tracks, you need effective throttle management exiting the corners (as in real racing). You need to do it some at the big tracks, too, but minor rear end wiggle is easy to get under control. When the car is loose on cold tires, you can recover from quite large yaw angles and snap the rear back in line. You just have to swallow some pride and crack the throttle to do so. Just do it!! Don't be a Bodine about it!!!
Getting into the corners is good. At the right tracks, if you're well set up and very smooth on the wheel you can turn in and come off the wall a reasonable amount before you have to lift off. If anyone questions this, view a tape of the Texas race that Junior won - watch his and Bobby Labonte's in-car shots and view & listen to their lift-off and turn-in points.
I want to say here that the car model (a.k.a "physics"), setup, and driving are intertwined. They always have been. A different car model when set up to be balanced may give you a similar driving experience, but the proving of the model shows when you get crossed up. I've been hit from behind numerous times in my testing, I spin a lot less, but I still spin, and minor fish-tails are recoverable. I've also laid some chrome horn on the opposition, I've been able to loop them and keep digging myself. When I do hit a car in front of me and wreck myself, well, I probably should have wrecked. In one test, I raced some at Indy and bumped the same AI car three times light-to-medium, and we both kept driving. The fourth time, I over-reacted, caught some grass, and was rightly toast.
I sent some real setups to Papyrus for them to try out and they said that they were "perfect". I don't draw much personal flattery from that - the crew chief decides what we run, I provide input for him. This does suggest that real setups run well. In all of my testing so far, I've gone to my setup sheets and used them as my baseline. Sometimes some tweaking is necessary, but the resultant setups still bear a semblance to reality. The changes I make, I make based upon real-life criteria, and I get credible response to the changes.
As it is now, the "Fast" setup is going to be derived from real racing setups. "Derived" - I assure you they won't be EXACTLY what we run, but they will be close in many respects. No team runs as well as it wants to everywhere, including mine, I wouldn't be so arrogant as to suggest our stuff straight out of the box would be best for you, anyway.
Some changes to the setups that you may be driven to make might go against the conventional wisdom. The conventional wisdom is not always right, however, and the car model you will have in your hands in NR2003 should allow you deal with some of these contrary situations. Any real team that lives exclusively by the "conventional wisdom" is hurting itself.
The car model in NR2003 may place more demand on your driving talent/skills and discipline. That doesn't mean you need to be a pro to drive it. We are continuing to develop it so that a satisfying driving and tinkering experience remain accessible to the large body of gamers, while still rewarding superior setup and driving.
Reklamy
Darkman
Dołączył: 13 Lis 2001
Posty: 2433
Miasto: Tychy
2002-10-28, 08:06 NR2003 - pierwsze "przecieki"
"I sent some real setups to Papyrus for them to try out and they said that they were "perfect". I don't draw much personal flattery from that - the crew chief decides what we run, I provide input for him. This does suggest that real setups run well. In all of my testing so far, I've gone to my setup sheets and used them as my baseline. Sometimes some tweaking is necessary, but the resultant setups still bear a semblance to reality. The changes I make, I make based upon real-life criteria, and I get credible response to the changes."
No to wygląda na to, że zapowiada się ciekawie a po zacytowanym fragmencie raczej trzeba stwierdzić, że przejście na nowego Nascara pociągnię za sobą tworzenie nowych setupów.
Ale przynajmniej można przypuszczać, że nie nastąpi przesiadka w połowie sezonu na nowego Nascara.
Jak widać jeszcze wiele do ideału brakuje ale jak na możliwości symulacji przez PC to i tak jest więcej niż osobiście mogłem się spodziewać.
BTW: Nie zauważyłem aby ktoś coś wspomniał na temat ciekawostki jaką usłyszałem wczoraj na Eurosporcie podczas zawodów Nascar. Komentator mianowicie wspomniał iż istnieje strona internetowa traktująca o Nascar po polsku i podał adres www.nascar.pl ! Czyżby ktoś z kierownictwa zabiegał o taką reklamę? Bo jeśli nie to może pójść za ciosem i wysłać im info o całej lidze i pozyskać sponsora?
DariuszM
Dołączył: 17 Sie 2001
Posty: 4793
Miasto: Poznan
2002-10-28, 08:09 NR2003 - pierwsze "przecieki"
He, he....czy THM-owi nie jest teraz łyso, z powodu zmiany sponsora?
robson
2002-10-28, 09:15 NR2003 - pierwsze "przecieki"
DariuszM napisał:
He, he....czy THM-owi nie jest teraz łyso, z powodu zmiany sponsora?
ale lepiej niech juz nie zmieniaja bo logitech gotow wyposcic nowy model z logo strony
Jestem nowy i malo wiem ale mam nadzieje ze to sie zmieni
Tiges
Dołączył: 17 Sie 2001
Posty: 2233
Miasto: Wrocław/Warszawa
2002-10-28, 09:53 NR2003 - pierwsze "przecieki"
usmiech kierownika ....
odcisniety w betonie ...
ale uzbrojonym!
Darkman
Dołączył: 13 Lis 2001
Posty: 2433
Miasto: Tychy
2002-10-28, 10:32 NR2003 - pierwsze "przecieki"
Tiges
Zapomniałeś jednak dodać, że ma to być wersja do zawieszenia na łańcuszku na szyi
Tiges
Dołączył: 17 Sie 2001
Posty: 2233
Miasto: Wrocław/Warszawa
2002-10-28, 10:39 NR2003 - pierwsze "przecieki"
.. ale copyright do nagrody na b. smolen (ze swoich dobrych czasow tak mi sie skojarzylo ...
A koledze Lewemu odpowiedam, ze nic o nagrodach jeszcze ogloszone nie bylo (po za tym ze maja byc
Darkman
Dołączył: 13 Lis 2001
Posty: 2433
Miasto: Tychy
2002-10-28, 10:43 NR2003 - pierwsze "przecieki"
A tak właśnie to zauważyłem, że kolega Lewy napisał tu pierwszego posta więc mówię "Witam".
A tak na marginesie - "Lewy" to idealna ksywa do Nascara patrząc po kątem pokonywania zakrętów w Nascarze
Mam nadzieje ze kiedys zagram w NASCARA przez internet tylko mam dwa male problemy
1.Admin zablokowal mi porty
2.Nie kupile jeszcze kierownicy (nastapi to w tym tygodniu)
Tiges
Dołączył: 17 Sie 2001
Posty: 2233
Miasto: Wrocław/Warszawa
2002-10-28, 10:56 NR2003 - pierwsze "przecieki"
Richie napisał:
Bylo ogloszone Tiges, bylo, nagrody od gry.interia.pl to oryginalne gry za 3 pierwsze miejsca...
Colin McRae2
nfs-hp2 i
prorally 2001
...
zartowalem
przepraszam za zamieszanie .. W takim razie bylo ogloszone ze beda jakies trzy gry.
Lewy: swinia nie admin
SEWER
Dołączył: 17 Sie 2001
Posty: 5471
Miasto: Wa-wa
2002-10-28, 10:58 NR2003 - pierwsze "przecieki"
Co do portow to w readme jest :
By default the following UDP ports will be used by NASCAR® Racing 2002 Season: 32766 for the net_server_port, 32767 for ping port, and then sequentially numbered ports for each allowed client connection (max of 42) starting at 32768.
i wszystko jasne ja tez mailem z tym problem.
Jaka kiere kupujesz ?
Mam zamiar kupic LOGITECH Kierownica WingMan Formula Force (czerwona) cena jest okolo 325 zl ale nie bylem jeszcze w sklepie. Chyba ze cos lepszego polecasz za okolo 400zl. Admin mowil ze zablokowal wsztstkie porty powyzej 100 Ale moze warto sprawdzic czy te co podales sa otwarte.
2002-10-27, 00:31 NR2003 - pierwsze "przecieki"
Porsche Cayenne - model 2010 
Corvette C6R GT2 
Tapety Aston Martin 
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American Truck Simulator: Colorado oficjalnie zapowiedziane
Na Co Zwracać Uwagę, Kupując Pierwszy Motocykl?
Alpina B5 i D5 S: nowe BMW serii 5 z większą porcją mocy i stylu
Silverstone Circuit - symbol Formuły 1
Niezwykły triumf Kajetanowicza i Szczepaniaka, Polacy wygrywają Rajd Portugalii!
